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Andy has branched out into more business and leadership podcasts, and one of the shows he has recently joined is The Nice Guys On Business. Doug Sandler hosts this podcast, and their conversation centered on trust, leadership, and the behaviors that define the RockStep culture.
With Doug’s three decades of entrepreneurial experience, the discussion quickly became a thoughtful exchange about values, accountability, and how to build a company that does the right thing even when no one is watching.
Doug opened the episode by asking Andy how he builds trust with investors and partners who may not have met him before. Andy began by explaining the origin of the company’s name and its philosophy.
“Before we get into the RockSteps, I always remind people that the word ‘rock step’ is a dance move. It means being agile, being flexible, and listening to the music in your industry.”
That idea of listening and adjusting has become the foundation of RockStep's operations. It influences how Andy leads, how the company grows, and how relationships are built.
“We use the rock step as a metaphor for solving problems. If something changes, you adjust. If something’s unclear, you pause and figure it out. That’s how trust is built.”
RockStep’s culture is grounded in 25 specific behaviors, all written by Andy personally. These behaviors, known as the Rock Steps, outline how team members treat one another, approach challenges, and conduct themselves with investors and communities.
“We have about a hundred employees, and every one of them is expected to live by the Rock Steps. If we follow them, we will have a high-performing team that builds trust and resolves conflict the right way.”
To keep these behaviors top of mind, RockStep practices a Rock Step of the Week ritual every Monday morning. For nine years, the full team has gathered for a call in which one person shares a written reflection on a specific behavior, then invites others to share their perspective.
“You need to be ready to contribute because you might be called on at random. It keeps everyone thinking about how these behaviors matter in daily life and in our work.”
This framework has become the company's language and the backbone of its culture.
Doug asked Andy which Rock Steps matter most to him. Andy immediately highlighted three:
“Rock Step number one is ‘Do the right thing, always.’ In the investment business, you face a lot of gray areas. You need to pause and ask what the right thing is.”
“Rock Step number three is ‘Be punctual.’ On time is five minutes early. If you’re on time, you’re late. That one is about courtesy.”
“Rock Step number twenty-four is ‘Keep family first.’ You need to safeguard your health and your family if you want to show up for your work.”
To Andy, the Rock Steps are not abstract ideas. They are the expectations that guide daily behavior inside the company and shape how RockStep interacts with investors, tenants, and community partners.
The conversation shifted to hiring and leadership. Doug noted that many companies struggle to balance skill and character when evaluating candidates. Andy agreed and explained that character always comes first at RockStep.
“I will never hire another brilliant jerk. I have made that mistake. You cannot compromise on behavior. Technical skill can be taught, but courtesy and integrity cannot.”
This philosophy is embedded in the hiring process. Every candidate must come prepared to discuss their three favorite Rock Steps and the three they find most challenging.
“You need to be good at what you do. But to stay at RockStep, you have to live the behaviors. They are non-negotiable.”
Andy’s leadership philosophy is rooted in his early career running his family’s 159-store retail chain, Weiner’s Stores.
“My father and grandfather taught me to pay every bill on time and never keep anyone waiting. Those habits became part of who I am.”
He also shared the importance of honesty in even the smallest transactions.
“If we ordered twelve dozen dresses and received one extra, we paid for the extra. If we were short, we paid for what we received. It was about honor.”
These foundational lessons now guide how Andy leads RockStep.
“Doing the right thing when no one is looking is how you build a real reputation.”
Doug asked why Andy continues to believe in commercial real estate as a long-term strategy. Andy explained that as investors accumulate wealth, they tend to increase allocations to alternative investments, with real estate being the largest category.
“Real estate is a strong alternative to the stock market. It adds diversification and stability. It fits well with what most of our investors already have.”
He outlined the four primary commercial real estate sectors: multifamily, industrial, office, and shopping centers.
“Our niche is shopping centers, both open-air and enclosed malls. They offer yield because the cap rate is higher than the cost of debt. That creates positive leverage and strong cash flow.”
Andy provided examples from RockStep’s recent acquisitions.
“We bought a grocery-anchored center at a nine percent yield and borrowed at seven percent. We also purchased an enclosed mall at sixteen percent. Those opportunities are uncommon in other sectors today.”
Andy described RockStep’s focus on secondary and tertiary markets, which he defines as “Hometown America.” These are smaller cities with strong civic leadership and real economic drivers such as universities, hospitals, or major employers.
“We invite local business leaders to invest alongside us. They know their community in ways that outside investors never can.”
This local alignment provides advantages that go far beyond capital.
“Local partners help with zoning, taxes, alternative uses, and tenant introductions. They reduce risk and improve outcomes for everyone.”
One of the most distinctive parts of RockStep’s mission is education.
“Our goal is to be the country’s leading educator in shopping center investing.”
RockStep’s Learning Center at rockstep.com includes more than 150 articles, plus videos that explain investment fundamentals, tax considerations, and real-world scenarios. Andy also produces content for The Shopping Center Channel on YouTube and posts on Instagram as The Shopping Center Guy.
“We want people to understand what they are looking at before they invest. Education comes first.”
As the conversation wrapped up, Doug asked Andy what message he hoped listeners would take away. Andy reflected on how kindness shapes every part of life.
“Being nice is about the small kindnesses, the everyday choices. Those are what make partnerships, friendships, and marriages work.”
Doug agreed, noting that Andy’s leadership philosophy aligns perfectly with the show's spirit.
“We are fierce because we care,” Andy said. “That is the Rock Step way.”